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 some games vs SnL_NoMercy

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ViperMitSniper
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PostSubject: some games vs SnL_NoMercy    Wed May 01, 2013 12:56 am

Hades much! Twisted Evil we had Hades 4 times in 3 games. As always i kinda suck in the eco departement, being down quite a few villies.

We played a 3rd game on Medi, which i didnt include here (Thor vs Hades which i won before 8mins so not really worth posting)

any tips or advise (other than making vills Rolling Eyes ) would be appreciated

ggs
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ScReAm_WaRRiOr
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PostSubject: Re: some games vs SnL_NoMercy    Wed May 01, 2013 2:36 am

the only factor for you lost, it was the economy, certainly not find another explanation

but someone else professional can make a difference analogy Smile)

Ggs
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AoL_Iron_maiden
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PostSubject: Re: some games vs SnL_NoMercy    Wed May 01, 2013 9:41 pm

on the ghostlake game, he simply outplayed you in lategame. I thought you had the game easy when u already had his tc down + had EQ coming soon.
The reason why you couldn't keep pushing and finish him off is because you lacked building spam ^^. But you know that since as soon as u got pushed back u started spamming buildings xD.
Anyways, i'm not a fan of both of your guys' strategy during classical. It's 1 mine ghostlake with open and unprotected gold. If one of you went full hips -> gg gold starve. Even if he goes heroic early while he still has 700+/- gold in his starting mine so he can make podromos, all you do is go mass hips for uber raiding (to delay his heroic time even further) and then transition into hips/tox to finish the gold starve IF he can make pods. When u do this, u have to micro ur hips well and focus fire the tox onto the pods (super low pierce armor).
I think the meta-game of aom and aot nowadays is really pansy (im not talking about you specifically, viper Wink, just making a general observation). U rarely see strong and aggressive strats anymore like rushes and such. Everyone just booms and plays lame and boring :S. I dont like it.
but anyways, 1 more comment on this game: structure your eco different when you go into classical. (you should've made a 2nd archery range if u were going hip/tox. He simply wasn't aggressive, which was to your benefit cuz he could've done some serious damage). Anyways so lets say you go 2 stable 2 archery range -> this is better on closed maps like alfheim, on open maps like this specific ghostlake one, a full hip army would win a battle. anyways enough of the tangents 11. So lets say you have 2 stable 2 archery. You had 2 on gold and 6 on wood going into classical (the house builder went to goold after). That leaves you too wood heavy and not enough gold to keep the proper ratio of units being created, imo. 80 gold hips get pretty darn expensive lol, and if your opponent is making stables (which u should scout as soon as u see him advance) you'll know that you need a strong hip force early because tox wont be much benefit until you have a nice chunk of them. So ya, having a more proper eco that will supplement your unit choice is important. Imo, i dont think tox/hips is a good choice for this specific map because of how open it was + gold placement, but whatever.


2nd game: nice goat steal XD! if u think about it, he can just ss his goats back lol, so i think its a titch more important to do some hunt scouting+ as much goat stealing as u can. besides, he has ptah farms too.... so ya...
hmm okay. so here's my interpretation of the map: all the gold is really close together, so i want to gold starve him. to do that ill need to get past ancestors and some early pressure from mig units (unless he cf's, which ill need to have better micro than him to beat). Anyways, regardless what he chooses to do, im going to build my stables/archeries farther forward so that i have better reinforcements when fighting happens. Plus, im going to wall the middle so he cant get to that mine + i can run behind it during ancestors. You can either go HARD with classical hips and not let him get the 2nd mine innitially -> your heroic time is later, or you can force him to use defensive ancestors, earlier heroic time, come back with 2 god powers and some counter-units to take the gold mines away from him. I'm not sure which i would choose, it depends on my mood, what im able to do with my economy and such beforehand, etc. But both are viable options. Perhaps the 2nd is a bit more safe, but hips are a very strong unit, so ya, when massed they're op rendeer
So, you basically did a version of option #2. Some light early pressure, forcing him to use ancestors to secure the mine, etc. The part where you lost the game is that you weren't micro'ing well enough -> chiron + ajax need to be killing ancestor units, not human units. Plus, if you built your military buildings closer to the action -> your reinforcements come earlier, your pressure is stronger, you can hold the gold starve -> gg.

I mean, of course your macro can be better, everyone's can lol (except magyar....). But i think in these 2 games, your micro and your military building issues cost you the game.
I think a more aggressive strategy would have won both games pretty handily, but whatever 11. So ya Wink

Hopefully someone else will comment too, and maybe ocmment on my comments
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AoL_Iron_maiden
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PostSubject: Re: some games vs SnL_NoMercy    Wed May 01, 2013 10:49 pm

ah crap i forgot to look at how well u spent your resources. Sorry :S
oh well, it was probably a titch of a factor, tho
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ViperMitSniper
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PostSubject: Re: some games vs SnL_NoMercy    Thu May 02, 2013 11:58 am

thx maiden Shocked

On the oasis game i think too that having my military buildings so far away + micro during ancs lost it

On GL though, why does his tc have to survive with 14 HP left and why does he stop my tc steal with like 50 HP left to build scratch that was a bit unlucky too

I really forgot spamming buildings though

Do you think, regardless of the fact that i couldnt or failed to use my UW effectively was it the better choice (over aphrodite) considering the map layout ?

considering your meta-game critics, i love rushing, i feel most comfortable when being super aggressive

but as his mine was fairly well protected in both games it made no sense to rush him ^^
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AoL_Iron_maiden
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PostSubject: Re: some games vs SnL_NoMercy    Thu May 02, 2013 9:12 pm

well i only mentioned rushing in a general sense. like in regards to all aom players these days.
In these 2 games, all the talk about gold was in relation to the 2nd mine out side of the base ->exposed and forward.

about uw vs curse: well i already talked about what i thought was the best strategy for this map, but i'll set that aside and comment only on the uw vs curse. Yes i think that uw can be useful on ghostlake since u can't build in the middle -> i 100% think you should've gone aphrodite. [so yesterday when i made the post, i was going to talk about this, but i didn't because i thought it was better to only talk about what i thought a 'bettter' strategy would be -> thus nullifying the need to discuss curse vs uw. Anyways, so i'm trying to remember the game in detail enough so i can comment properly]. Okay, anyways. So if i'm correct, you went 2 stable, 1 archery, and you also went heroic early at like 10 mins. I'll use isis and ra as an example to personify my point i'm trying to make. What is 1 reason why ra struggles so much more than isis does? Well, isis has aggressive god powers (ancestors) whereas ra doesn't. Meaning isis can secure a 2nd gold mine by using the aggressive god power defensively, right? It's the same concept in this game's situation. curse is an aggressive god power, whereas uw is more strategic of a god power (sort of like ra's citadel or even locust god powers). So, since you went heroic early and didn't have a strong military, nomercy could have/should have been more aggressive and proactive with his mass hips that he should've made and pushed you HARD so you couldn't get a tc or a 2nd gold mine -> and u wouldn't be able to use a god power to protect yourself, such as isis using a/e to secure a 2nd gold mine or whatever.

so to answer your question directly, no i do not think uw was a better choice. It is the exact opposite, in that a curse push on the 2nd gold mine with hips would have easily won this game for 1 of u guys. (tbh, given both of your guys' playstyle in this game, mass hips woulda won the game before heroic, so ><)
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