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 Stockton vs Panther

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Stockton
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PostSubject: Stockton vs Panther   Mon May 13, 2013 4:03 am

Missed one of his gold mine's in my scout and casted flaming weapons forgetting he had cease. Any other criticism welcome Smile
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ScReAm_WaRRiOr
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PostSubject: Re: Stockton vs Panther   Mon May 13, 2013 4:24 am

amazing how suddenly its economy was the factor by which you earned
You move too fast you also to the classic and I think when avanze so fast you can make a good rush against poseidon. panther must've won because it took time to grow economically, but did not and was the factor by which lost
I think if you practice one rush with thor, you might be very good at fast attacks with thor, small things to improve, continue to improve friend with your thor

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AoL_Iron_maiden
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PostSubject: Re: Stockton vs Panther   Mon May 13, 2013 6:48 pm

hey stockton Smile
If you don't mind, first i'll give you some general tips, then afterwards i want to talk to you about strategy.

- so against pos, when you're in the "raid wars" style of game, you want to try never to fight vs hippikins with your rc unless you are almost 100% sure you will win Wink. Usually that means you either have a few armory upgrades, or you are at full pop. Rc lose to hips in a 1v1 fight (without upgrades), but rc win vs hips at full pop because hips are 3 pop and rc are 2 pop, which means you will have more rc ^^. So yes, try to only fight when you are full pop or clearly clearly outnumber his hips.
- remember to spend those resources!! towards the end of the game there were some times when u had resources stockpiled, and you could have used them to stay popped and also get even more armory ups (cheap ups ftw Very Happy)
-good job securing that gold mine outside your base. of course he wasn't able to put much pressure on it at all, but still, it's good to prepare and be in the habit of playing that way.
- okay so vs pos, as soon as you get heroic, start massing ulfs/huskarls (bragi ulfs ftw). That combo will fucking annihilate poseidon quicker than he can shake a stick! husks/ulf are one of the most lethal combos in the game if the greek plyaer doesn't use hypaspists and if the eggy doesn't use axemen. So when u are able to abuse this combo, do it HARD! You want to fuckin rape the enemy with this before he gets smart and counters it with hypaspists (or eggy axemen).
-your eco was very imbalanced during classical. you don't need more than 10 dwarves on gold, and u didn't need to get the 2nd gold eco upgrade so early 11.


Okay so now for some strategy. There will be some general tips in this section too that i didn't include above, since they have more to do with the strategy aspect.
First what i'm going to do is explain how i theoretically would play this map (with perhaps a few other options).
So as the game is loading, i see it's on ghostlake. So what i do first is create an ulfsark from my tc right away, that way i have 2 ulfsarks scouting for sheep (then an immediate forest fire as soon as i reach classical). I want to gather all the sheep i possibly can as quick as i can. Now, immediately what i want to notice is if u have 1 or 2 starting mines in your base. That will determine what strat options i consider. Of course with 1 gold mine, my first thought is "how can i gold starve him?". So as i'm scouting, i am noticing where every gold mine is on the map. If the map is good to gold starve the enemy, i'll want to do that. THere are different ways of doing it. if his 1 starting mine is at the front of his base, maybe i'll try being SUPER AGGRESSIVE and knocking him off his home gold = gg early. Or maybe i'll want to mass RC to protect my gold + attempt to gold starve him at his 2nd gold mine. That means i want to get some upgrades for my rc and go pretty hard with raiding during classical. This map had 2 gold mines, so gold starving early won't be an option. So what does that mean? Well it means you can't get gold starved early either becaues you have 2 gold mines in ur base. So you can do a semi fh. Raid a little bit and keep him busy -> try to delay his hreoic time as long as possible by knocking him off hunt then fucking with his wood so he can't make farms. So yes, then you take a tc, abuse the ulf/husk combo in early heroic and what you want to do is attempt to take one of his tc's so you have the 4v2 tc advantage.
Okay, so now we've covered the general theoretic strategies of this map/matchup, now to get into some intricacies:
Theoretic intricacies of super aggressive gold starving:
-so even when i make a 2nd ulfsark early, i can still advance early at around 4:40 with a 7-4-4 build order. If u think food might be sketchy, u can make the 2nd ulfsark after 1 or 2 mins to get your food eco going a little better, but i usually just say fuck that, ill put an extra dwarf in the mix to save food and up with 2 ulfs early @ 440~.
- if i see his starting 1 gold mine is at the front of his base, ill use both my ulfsarks to build a forward base and ulf rush his ass. if not, ill build back and do a raiding strat. Either way, i want to push him off hunt ASAP, then go right for his gold (or wood if i go raiding strat).
- as soon as i get 1 longhouse built, i want to get at least 1 extra ulfsark out first to help build the other longhouses. If i've built a forward base and am going for an ulf rush, naturally ill be spamming ulfs out of that longhouse.
-anyways regardless what type of aggressive strat you do, you want to be OFFENSIVE. You want to be dictating what is happening to the game. You want to be so aggressive that your opponent does not have time to go and raid your eco. if you've built forward, you've left your economy exposed. so you need to be super aggressive, super proactive and fuck shit up. Snort some COCAINEEEE if you need to Smile.
-abuse thor's armory upgrades. I basically always build 2 armories when i play thor. his ups are so cheap that often times i can afford multiple at one time, so 2 armories = quicker researching.
intracacies of semi fh'ing/ booming/ defensive etc:
you don't have to advance early, but it helps. naturally you want to slow down the poseidon as much as you can. so typically i'll still advance before 5 mins and get an early forest fire on his wood. basically, regardless what strat you do with thor, yo uwant to get the first 'punch', if that makes sense. try to keep up on the offensive and keep the enemy on his heels, if that makes sense.
- so doing a semi, u dont need more than like 10-15 raiders. you're just trying to fuck with him enough to slow him down and keep his attention OFF of you. with your eco, your goal is to get 10 dwarves on gold and get heroic around like 10 mins or so. If you can, try to get the 2nd eco ups while you're advancing to heroic, and after you've advanced, switch some vills from food to wood. you want a strong wood eco to afford tc's/forts/huskarls + the 2 bragi upgrades for your ulfsarks.

Now, some tips regarding the strategy aspect of this game you played:
so i think your eco was pretty crap, going into classical haha. I dunno why you advanced so early (4:33), but you didn't take advantage of the early advance -> you should be advancing early when u want to go super aggressive and rush. So instead you did the mass rc strat. that's fine and all, but the way you structured your economy during archaic and such was not ideal for this decision. Make sure you get pickaxe/handaxe (you didn't get them while upping to classical) to make sure your eco is strong. The only reason why u wouldn't get these 2 upgrades would be if you're rushing.
Next, you were late building your longhouses with your 1 ulfsark. Then u only built 1, then built some walls and stuff. basically you were toooooo slow getting your military out and on the attack. Remember how i said you want to be the one to get the first punch in? That means you gotta get your longhouses up quick and BAM, ff and knocking off wood asap.
Ulfsarrks build pretty dam slow. Thatt's why i get at least 1 extra ulf out of my first longhouse to help build the others. If you want, u can get 1-2 ulfsarks out of your town center as soon as you advance to classic to help build, or you can get 1 or 2 hersir from ur temple as u advance. No matter what you do, you GOTTA get your mil up and out quicker, regardless if you are going to semi fh, mass rc, rush, or whatever.
btwi just want to mention, u did a good job securing your home base with walls and such. u were lucky with nice forest placement, but still, nice job with that.

i think from here on out you can gather what other strategic tips i would say, based on my theoretical advice i've already typed above. Things like getting 2nd eco ups when u are upping to heroic, abusing ulf/husk, etc.

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AoL_Iron_maiden
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PostSubject: Re: Stockton vs Panther   Mon May 13, 2013 6:49 pm

that was a long fuckin post -_-
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Stockton
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PostSubject: Re: Stockton vs Panther   Mon May 13, 2013 8:39 pm

Thank you very much for taking the time to post that Smile. Helps alot. Would you recommend getting two ulfs on any other maps? other than oasis.
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PostSubject: Re: Stockton vs Panther   Mon May 13, 2013 10:10 pm

almost every land map i do 2 ulfs (unless i'm expecting to rush or being rushed and decide to go only 1 ulf).
but, oasis and ghostlake are the only maps that i get the 2nd ulf out asap for scouting.

then on water maps: mid: 2 but 2nd late, ana: 2 with asap 2nd, medit: 1, if i'm vs zeus maybe ill make a 2nd early and do a late up with 3 docks so he doesn't fuck me with bolt :S
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PostSubject: Re: Stockton vs Panther   Thu May 23, 2013 7:40 am

that was a good read
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